G3 LS1 Swap

by oldstofty Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:34 am

Weighing my options, wanted to know if there was any one here thats done a LS swap into a G3. Needing information for headers, harness, fuel system. Thanks

by Brainstain Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:56 am

Myself and about 3 others are in process or have it completed. I have a 6.0 in my wagon, using double adjustable "Dirty Dingo" engine mounts off eBay and I'll be using shorty headers. I plan on going big with the Holley ECU instead of retrofitting a LS based harness in. Are you going with a carb or staying EFI? I'm doing a carb swapped LS in my 74 Vega and man is that a lot cheaper and easier than EFI.

by G3NUT Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:39 pm

If your doing a ls1 swap from a camaro/firebird i can help with that.
If your doing a ls swap from a truck check with wallyuph he might be able to help.

by Wallyuph Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:03 pm

If you do the truck swap the intake will not clear your hood with dirty dingo mounts unless you eliminate the A/C. That means swamping out intake and then water pump and possibly all front components. That can add up fast so a car set up will be the best way to go but they do coat more to start with.

I have a shaker whole in my hood when I got this car so I will be making the shaker scoop fit.

Here is a photo of the clearance with keeping every thing stock form a truck engine.

[url= G3 LS1 Swap Img_6610

]

This is a piece of angle iron laid across tops of fenders. I can not go any lower as oil pan would hit cross member.

by oldstofty Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:33 pm

My hood has clearance with the cowl. I am looking to build a nitrous motor, havent found the engine yet. just trying to set up my budget and scavenge for parts. this will be a race motor so no frills. just what ever it takes to run the engine will be sticking with a th400. Which motor is best for nitrous? 5.3 5.7 or 6.0?

by ant7377 Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:23 pm

i saw an article where they even made a bunch of power with the 4.8 and alot of nitrous. I think it was in car craft.

by Brainstain Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:57 pm

I don't know how much you know so I'll start from square one. Stay with an iron block and spray the piss out of it. If you haven't already, join ls1tech.com and ls1.com and check out all the awesomeness over there.

I am using a Moroso pan on my wagon but if you wanted to go cheaper an H3 pan is the same shape as a truck pan but is about an inch or so shorter vertically. There are many options for intakes while staying EFI. A LOT of guys drag racing at LSFest were running a single plane carb style intake and a throttle body on a 90* elbow.

What my buddy and myself did was to buy a 6.0 with junk bearings and rebuild it. If you buy a good engine the first thing you should do is pull the pan and replace the o ring on the oil pickup tube. 5.3, 5.7 and 6.0 all share the same crank and rods. The only difference is the piston size. The 4.8 is completely on its own with crank and rods. Don't get suckered into thinking you need crazy pricey heads either. Truck 317s will flow really well with just a little work. Phew.. Hope that helps.

by jerry46765 Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:06 am

What is the goal?
Why LS1/LSx?
What are you running now?
What does the car weigh?

If you are on a budget to get the most bang for your buck, try a big block Chevy. For the cost of an EFI LSX bracket motor, you could build a really stout big block carb motor and have some bucks in your pocket to race it.

by oldstofty Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:13 am

The Goal is 10s in quarter while still streetable. LSx because i have been reading a ton where guys are making good power cheaply, which leads into your next question. currently running 455 olds standard bore with a small factory grind cam and stock iron heads. to get my 4000lb pig into the 10s your talking aluminum heads $1800 out of the box, maybe victor intake $300 new pistons and bore the motor and new cam. still would only push probably mid to low 11s and not streetable and BBO arent fond of spray. My buddies formula (ls1) has went 10.50s on spray, with ls7 intake cam and a tune on 93 octane. he weighs in around 3400 ish

by jerry46765 Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:04 pm

When you said racecar, I was thinking purpose built and trailered to the track.

My point was if it was a drag car, was the cost of EFI isn't really needed. You can build WOT power with less complexity and probably make more power. Plus, you can tune it yourself. Things you can do yourself can be sorted out right away and usually cost less.

LSx parts are still premium cost over big/small block aftermarket hardware. You could do a dependable bracket car sb/bbc engine for less money. If you are doing a cam swap on a stock engine and spraying it, definitely not the same type of build and won't have the same durability.

Any racecar will wake up if you could lose 600 pounds (4000 to 3400). A '69 Camaro has a huge advantage over a G3 in weight alone.

It is funny, someone said spray the hell out of it. Nothing sucks worse than standing in the pits at 1am waiting on a rollback to haul you home after you didn't leave enough on the table because you needed to drive it home.

by jerry46765 Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:06 pm

What are you running now as far as times?

by oldstofty Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:19 pm

12.70s currently, im ok going carbed as i think it would be easier and less expensive. And i am hoping to use the stock bottom end with spray. as you said the 317 heads seem to do the part so i would just be doing a cam swap and removing efi and going carbed. Im not sure i can find a way to lose 600 in my G3 as it already had fiberglass bumpers, fiberglass seats and plastic fuel cell.

by jerry46765 Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:23 pm

With a 4000 pound car, you need 600hp to run 11.50s.
That is alot of spray for stock bottom end.
It will be fun for awhile.

What are doing with the 455? What heads are on it?

by oldstofty Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:20 pm

c heads, not sure what im going to do with it. i have a couple 455 blocks, one thats already been bored 60 over but i dont have pistons for it. I would need a set of aluminum heads for that motor as well. that motor ran 10.70s in a 2800 lb chassis car but keep blowing head gaskets, to much compression with a different set of milled heads

by jerry46765 Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:32 pm

My 4125 pound Chevelle has a nearly stock Olds 455 with J heads, knurled pistons, Comp Cams hydraulic with Quadrajet, and headers. It was 13.50s with a 4.10 gear. I have been gathering parts to do a better 455. I have a set of Edelbrock heads, torker intake, and Eagle stroker crank. Just need a good set of rods and pistons. It should be in the 500+ range without too much hassle as a street car.

As far as weight savings, the intake on an Olds motor is massive, so alum. heads & intake would be a big savings. But starting with a lighter car would be the easiest gain.

by Brainstain Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:59 pm

If you haven't built an LS series engine, you literally don't understand the power one can make with a cam swap. If you haven't done your homework on LS stuff, you positively have no idea. I can't remember who tested it but someone built a carbed LS1 with a tiny cam made 420 hp and I'm almost positive they only used a 650 cfm carb. I have a rather small cam in my Ls1 and with a .010 mill on the heads, a victor Jr and a 750 I should be pushing 480 or so. My MSD 6LS box was $292 shipped, my LS Victor intake was $272 shipped and my mounts were $56.. Add in your choice of headers and you're done. And yes. A stock bottom end will handle a 150-200 shot for quite a while.

by oldstofty Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:01 pm

I have a performer intake. any interest in selling off those edelbrock heads?

by jerry46765 Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:41 pm

We had a test engine which was nothing more than a stock '99-00 LS1 with a set of 1 3/4 headers on it.
We used to do dyno comparisons.
It made 410hp stock with production intake, throttle body, and ecu.
Any reasonable cam change was +50 without any cal changes.
Any crazier cam needed machined for better springs for any longevity.

Is it a good idea to blow 200+ spray on a production hypereutectic piston with 100k miles on it? No.
Will the bottom end handle it? Yes.
Would I change the rod bolts? Yes.
So If you have it that far apart, why not properly go through it and do it right?

The victor intake has a power band of 4-8500 rpm.
What cam and convertor are you running? On the street?

No, I want to keep the Edelbrock heads and are key to a powerful street motor.

by oldstofty Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:33 pm

for me im only spinning 6000 thru the traps which is quite a bit for stock rods, .474 lift cam, not sure of converter. doesnt see much street time with my 4.88 gears Smile

by jerry46765 Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:17 pm

If you already have other Olds parts, why go buy a completely different engine? You have to start all over; exhaust, intake, ignition, cooling system, and if it's EFI, wiring, fuel lines, & pumps.

Yeah, 4.88 is pretty stout without overdrive.

by Brainstain Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:22 pm

If he's only shooting for 600 hp it shouldn't really need more than a 100 shot and a decent sized cam with proper support pieces and a little head work. My point is, dollar for dollar and upgrade to upgrade, an LS will make more power, easier. Parts aren't any more expensive than any other engine you buy, and they are just as easy to find. There's a reason guys are ditching the big blocks and sbc strokers and building an LS.

by Brainstain Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:25 pm

Exhaust should be big enough to support it, radiator hooks in the same as any older Chevy.. Heck, I have a radiator from my buddy's 05 Silverado in my 74 wagon that I gave $30 for. Pic/pull a part sells them dirt cheap.

by oldstofty Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:36 pm

Main reason is an Olds block will support 600hp and thats about it, hopefully crank would hold to that as well. but thats where i would like to be. Just figured it had to be cheaper than building a 455 even with what i have. My total comes to about 4500 to build a 500-600 hp olds. Carbed LS i figured i could get that same results for a little less plus have the foundation to go bigger as time goes on.

by jerry46765 Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:59 pm

I guess you have to decide how long you will continue to run this car, and if it's capable of handling power escalation beyond 600hp. If you wanted to move to a different car in the future (lighter or maybe different chassis set-up), then pouring more money into an Olds motor which might not go well in the next car might not be the best plan.

Where Mr. Stain and I disagree is the approach to racing. If you are building a car to throw down a big number once or twice a year, then you could build a 'pick a part' engine with a big cam and lots of spray. But, if you are going to race it every week all summer long, you will still spend 5 grand to build a dependable race engine. You pay the same money for the amount you intend to race. You spend it upfront, or you spend it later.

Thanks –

Jerry

by oldstofty Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:02 am

Im sure i will be sticking with this chassis as if i ever go to a lighter car it would probably be my dad tube chassis 68 442. Thanks for all the input, may ill just save up and build the BBO that i have. It will be an every weekend warrior

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